Right now I feel like Reddit is the best approximation for this space online—it’s why so many people Google “item I’m considering buying + Reddit” because that place offers authenticity and is also *deeply* anti-ad. But—there are a lot of things about Reddit that don’t necessarily lure ME, the exact consumer who reads your work and is part of the cohort of those Substack chats, to be part of that community. So there is definitely something here.
yes reddit is so great! im a reddit power user. and i absolutely always use that googling trick. i also agree that reddit doesnt quite represent me because its heavily male dominated and theres a certain snark there that can at times be rough.
glossier bringing back the OG balm dot com formula after a year of people campaigning for it in the comments is telling me you might want to entertain that idea a bit further
I hope substack chats stays where recs come from real users vs brands but I hope brands mine for insights and data. Listen to consumers. Love your fresh idea for consumer reports (we need this!!) and love that you laid claim to this too.
Chime in from completely different industry here.. drug developers & investors/VC’s have LONG stalked the “patient chat/support” forums to get competitive intel.
Sadly, I feel like these little wellsprings ~ like the substack chats ~ have a moment of authenticity & fun before the ENSHITTIFICATION (omg what a fab word) sets in.. & I’m feeling like we are pretty much there 😶
Definite decline in any level of discourse (your Substack, truly, is rare exception.. as is HUNG UP (@Hunter Harris) & … interestingly, after what seems like 1000’s of readers being heavily influenced to buy-buy.. most of the threads now consist of 100’s of people trying to unload things they could not afford for absurdly high (sorry, but true) resale prices.
Would be AWESOME to b able to filter Substack to NOT see the (let’s face it, says she the cancer drug developer in me..) DTC ads of the spoils of overconsumption 👋👋👋👋
If above sounds bitchy, or as tho I am somehow immune .. I AM NOT!!! Early days of substack/the newsletters, I was in a phase of big incoming cash flow, & thought nothing of purchasing a few “recommended” (AKA affiliate links) items from each post…
I don’t regret~ I found some darling niche brands I still love, & certainly (thank you @Magasin & LMC/cereal aisle) DEFINITELY learned how to style my clothes in ways I hadn’t thought of
Completely completely worth it!!!
The chats.. when I moved last June x-county w a bit more free time & fewer local friends.. I enjoyed some of the convos on Jenny says quoi .. about bravery & re-lo & new beginnings !!
@totally Recommend I’m noodling over your idea. I love the energy it’s coming from. I’m a start-up person & run w others of same ilk a bunch.. & happy to talk more (you’re like “u think ??? Debo you loquacious B??)
I love the story of how Seinfeld (Jerry Seinfeld + Larry David’s first attempt at sitcom) was mocked by the formulaic tv producers of the day. They said it had to have a certain flow, etc. It was a producer from the variety department who funded the pilots. I use these kinds of stories to fuel my delusions daily. And who doesn’t love a Robin Hood esque “the experts said no and she did it anyway and thrived” moment??? I say go for it.
Love the idea! Live thinking abt what we want the internet to be! Talk abt “vitality”! It’s always fascinating to me how users find ways around monetization and the general ick of so much of the internet. The move to Reddit search is one example. The Substack chats another. And anything teens do online is usually way ahead of the tech companies. I also love this bc the internet is fun, or can be, and the doomsday narratives create a sense of powerlessness. Love your posts!
Yes! I love your insight about teens. The internet is fun, and since we're all spending quite a bit of time here, shouldn't we be conscious of how we're creating and shaping it? Shouldn't we have a say in making it more useful and joyful? love hearing from you, Kara!
Love this idea! Completely agree that it’s impossible to find authentic reviews anywhere (except Reddit), you can’t find what you’re even actually looking for on Google, and I hate all of the (repetitive) ads on Instagram, Pinterest, etc. Do you think it’s possible to have a platform like your proposed website that won’t be overrun by bots or influencers or brands or other fake reviews/opinions?
yes excluding reddit and RTR at times, its hard to find places to go! re: bots that is pretty easy to eliminate but fake reviews and opinions are definitely a huge challenge!
I think this idea is totally doable if it was subscription only or had some minimal barrier to entry. I love the concept. You could even structure it a little like Substack, where you could give people a taste (maybe access to the reviews our chats for one item or for one day), then ask for a monthly/yearly sub. Or maybe you get your membership comped for a month with 2-4 reviews/recs (that have to be approved by a human maybe so people don't just upload copypasta) or some kind of points system like Reddit. I would 100% pay for something like that, with reviews like those you mentioned a while ago on rental sites. I think there's a danger in looking to younger users in certain cases because 1) they don't seem to want to pay for anything ever, 2) they can be super fickle, and 3) they're so used to the your-data-pays-for-everything structure. Mature women are just tired of all the BS and don't want to waste their time so would be totally on board if they tusted the platform, I think. If you decide to do it, some of us might love to help or invest, too!
yes thats what i was thinking about too re: members only. also its funny what you said about comped for 2-4 reviews because i thought of that exact same idea! very cool that we're on the same page. love your input <3
I think chats could still be authentic if a brand entered… under certain circumstances, specifically what I like to describe as “Santa at Macy’s” circumstances (I.e. how Santa from the original Miracle at 34th Street literally sent people elsewhere for better products, better prices, etc.) will we get a brand like that? Who knows! It could happen.
I loved reading this and as a lover of fashion I love reading and helping in the chats. Regarding the links, affiliate links are unfortunately the only reason designers or shoppable links end up in magazines( the ones that are still in business). Vogue, Elle, Bazaar etc will not accept your pr pitch unless it’s “shoppable”. This is a more recent trend which has took over the industry in the past 2 years or so. Designers have to pay extra for this just to end up a a “mention” or shoppable story which is also carrying over to Substack.
Glad you loved it! The feedback around the aff links was more people putting them in the chat when someone has asked for a recommendation. A lot of people felt that rubbed them the wrong way since it was coming from an individual not a publication
😵💫😵💫🤮🤮🤮 and we wonder why we are all not still grabbing that September issue like our lives depended on it 🤣🤣🥰🥰
Thank you for this insight ..
Who knows.. maybe the whole whale 🐳 sinks.. we all start buying vintage/re-sale & emerging designers do pop-ups & away we go??
I have zero insight into the economics of fashion biz.. so if the above sounds naive or annoying /clueless it is.
Meanwhile.. I’m the “lonely cloud” applauding the downfall of luxury e-commerce as, for me personally, phone-shopping a big dopamine rush I’d b happy to eliminate 😂😂🥰🥰
I would support a brand having its own chat if it wasn’t there just to make you buy stuff but also to pump you up about yourself. Like, if you’re hesitating between two outfits they’d give advice on how to style it but also be like “do you need help prepping for that interview?” And afterwards, they’d check in too!
Anyways, I’m thinking of building my own brand, and this is how I’d like it to be :)
Its a bit disheartening to realize the cycle of new platforms created to fill a specific communal need being taken over by commodification and business profit leading to mass exodus to new platforms... rinse and repeat. Some of us are both the responsible parties and the victims.
I own my own business as well - a small, consensual dispute resolution (ie out of court) family law firm. that offers collaborative law, mediation, and other services that fit into our out-of-court philosophy. I want to make money as much as the next person in order to feed my kids, pay for their education, and provide for myself in retirement while having a decent quality of life. We have a social media presence, which we leverage to build community connections with other business owners and professionals. The goal is to be able to serve our clients better, which obviously leads to profit for us (hopefully). I benefit from this financially while also providing a service that I think is very needed to provide holistic assistance during separation and divorce that helps a family transition in a healthy way.
I shared the details of my business here to show my own place in the business/personal social media milieu. If I could make more money with a stronger social media presence, I probably would. Local and service based is a lot different than selling tangible goods. I guess my point is that **most** of us are willing to use social media for what it can offer us, so where do we draw the line?
I really like your thought experiment, but I cant help but be slightly cynical about the inevitability of user exploitation for personal gain.
As a fashion designer, I 100% agree with your comment on testing what people want. I’ve actually just written a piece on it and how helpful it could be to those who are just starting out. I love how engaged Substackers are.
Right now I feel like Reddit is the best approximation for this space online—it’s why so many people Google “item I’m considering buying + Reddit” because that place offers authenticity and is also *deeply* anti-ad. But—there are a lot of things about Reddit that don’t necessarily lure ME, the exact consumer who reads your work and is part of the cohort of those Substack chats, to be part of that community. So there is definitely something here.
yes reddit is so great! im a reddit power user. and i absolutely always use that googling trick. i also agree that reddit doesnt quite represent me because its heavily male dominated and theres a certain snark there that can at times be rough.
I was gonna say exactly the same thing 😊. It does feel like Reddit.
glossier bringing back the OG balm dot com formula after a year of people campaigning for it in the comments is telling me you might want to entertain that idea a bit further
haha v true! didnt think about that
I hope substack chats stays where recs come from real users vs brands but I hope brands mine for insights and data. Listen to consumers. Love your fresh idea for consumer reports (we need this!!) and love that you laid claim to this too.
thats actually an interesting idea, knew youd have a good one! and we shall see about consumer reports , ha! Thank you Sarah! 😊
Chime in from completely different industry here.. drug developers & investors/VC’s have LONG stalked the “patient chat/support” forums to get competitive intel.
Sadly, I feel like these little wellsprings ~ like the substack chats ~ have a moment of authenticity & fun before the ENSHITTIFICATION (omg what a fab word) sets in.. & I’m feeling like we are pretty much there 😶
Definite decline in any level of discourse (your Substack, truly, is rare exception.. as is HUNG UP (@Hunter Harris) & … interestingly, after what seems like 1000’s of readers being heavily influenced to buy-buy.. most of the threads now consist of 100’s of people trying to unload things they could not afford for absurdly high (sorry, but true) resale prices.
Would be AWESOME to b able to filter Substack to NOT see the (let’s face it, says she the cancer drug developer in me..) DTC ads of the spoils of overconsumption 👋👋👋👋
If above sounds bitchy, or as tho I am somehow immune .. I AM NOT!!! Early days of substack/the newsletters, I was in a phase of big incoming cash flow, & thought nothing of purchasing a few “recommended” (AKA affiliate links) items from each post…
I don’t regret~ I found some darling niche brands I still love, & certainly (thank you @Magasin & LMC/cereal aisle) DEFINITELY learned how to style my clothes in ways I hadn’t thought of
Completely completely worth it!!!
The chats.. when I moved last June x-county w a bit more free time & fewer local friends.. I enjoyed some of the convos on Jenny says quoi .. about bravery & re-lo & new beginnings !!
@totally Recommend I’m noodling over your idea. I love the energy it’s coming from. I’m a start-up person & run w others of same ilk a bunch.. & happy to talk more (you’re like “u think ??? Debo you loquacious B??)
Anyway
I’m @deborahtmorosini iRL on IG
Congrats on not having been enshittified lovey ❤️
ENSHITTIFICATION - I’m stealing that 🤣 well done 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻
loved every word of this. and the review from that medium has me laughing out loud!
oh I’m so glad…and I know it was absolutely hilarious! thanks for reading 💜
I love the story of how Seinfeld (Jerry Seinfeld + Larry David’s first attempt at sitcom) was mocked by the formulaic tv producers of the day. They said it had to have a certain flow, etc. It was a producer from the variety department who funded the pilots. I use these kinds of stories to fuel my delusions daily. And who doesn’t love a Robin Hood esque “the experts said no and she did it anyway and thrived” moment??? I say go for it.
I didn’t know that story! I love it. And yes don’t we all want to root for the underdog :) thank you!
Love the idea! Live thinking abt what we want the internet to be! Talk abt “vitality”! It’s always fascinating to me how users find ways around monetization and the general ick of so much of the internet. The move to Reddit search is one example. The Substack chats another. And anything teens do online is usually way ahead of the tech companies. I also love this bc the internet is fun, or can be, and the doomsday narratives create a sense of powerlessness. Love your posts!
Yes! I love your insight about teens. The internet is fun, and since we're all spending quite a bit of time here, shouldn't we be conscious of how we're creating and shaping it? Shouldn't we have a say in making it more useful and joyful? love hearing from you, Kara!
Love this idea! Completely agree that it’s impossible to find authentic reviews anywhere (except Reddit), you can’t find what you’re even actually looking for on Google, and I hate all of the (repetitive) ads on Instagram, Pinterest, etc. Do you think it’s possible to have a platform like your proposed website that won’t be overrun by bots or influencers or brands or other fake reviews/opinions?
yes excluding reddit and RTR at times, its hard to find places to go! re: bots that is pretty easy to eliminate but fake reviews and opinions are definitely a huge challenge!
I think this idea is totally doable if it was subscription only or had some minimal barrier to entry. I love the concept. You could even structure it a little like Substack, where you could give people a taste (maybe access to the reviews our chats for one item or for one day), then ask for a monthly/yearly sub. Or maybe you get your membership comped for a month with 2-4 reviews/recs (that have to be approved by a human maybe so people don't just upload copypasta) or some kind of points system like Reddit. I would 100% pay for something like that, with reviews like those you mentioned a while ago on rental sites. I think there's a danger in looking to younger users in certain cases because 1) they don't seem to want to pay for anything ever, 2) they can be super fickle, and 3) they're so used to the your-data-pays-for-everything structure. Mature women are just tired of all the BS and don't want to waste their time so would be totally on board if they tusted the platform, I think. If you decide to do it, some of us might love to help or invest, too!
yes thats what i was thinking about too re: members only. also its funny what you said about comped for 2-4 reviews because i thought of that exact same idea! very cool that we're on the same page. love your input <3
I think chats could still be authentic if a brand entered… under certain circumstances, specifically what I like to describe as “Santa at Macy’s” circumstances (I.e. how Santa from the original Miracle at 34th Street literally sent people elsewhere for better products, better prices, etc.) will we get a brand like that? Who knows! It could happen.
Great feedback. And wow interesting about Macy’s Santa! I never knew about that!
Obviously this brought in huge numbers of customers in the movie… so it was a huge win for the brand too!
I loved reading this and as a lover of fashion I love reading and helping in the chats. Regarding the links, affiliate links are unfortunately the only reason designers or shoppable links end up in magazines( the ones that are still in business). Vogue, Elle, Bazaar etc will not accept your pr pitch unless it’s “shoppable”. This is a more recent trend which has took over the industry in the past 2 years or so. Designers have to pay extra for this just to end up a a “mention” or shoppable story which is also carrying over to Substack.
Glad you loved it! The feedback around the aff links was more people putting them in the chat when someone has asked for a recommendation. A lot of people felt that rubbed them the wrong way since it was coming from an individual not a publication
😵💫😵💫🤮🤮🤮 and we wonder why we are all not still grabbing that September issue like our lives depended on it 🤣🤣🥰🥰
Thank you for this insight ..
Who knows.. maybe the whole whale 🐳 sinks.. we all start buying vintage/re-sale & emerging designers do pop-ups & away we go??
I have zero insight into the economics of fashion biz.. so if the above sounds naive or annoying /clueless it is.
Meanwhile.. I’m the “lonely cloud” applauding the downfall of luxury e-commerce as, for me personally, phone-shopping a big dopamine rush I’d b happy to eliminate 😂😂🥰🥰
Commented below ⬇️ & thank you xo
I would support a brand having its own chat if it wasn’t there just to make you buy stuff but also to pump you up about yourself. Like, if you’re hesitating between two outfits they’d give advice on how to style it but also be like “do you need help prepping for that interview?” And afterwards, they’d check in too!
Anyways, I’m thinking of building my own brand, and this is how I’d like it to be :)
Its a bit disheartening to realize the cycle of new platforms created to fill a specific communal need being taken over by commodification and business profit leading to mass exodus to new platforms... rinse and repeat. Some of us are both the responsible parties and the victims.
I own my own business as well - a small, consensual dispute resolution (ie out of court) family law firm. that offers collaborative law, mediation, and other services that fit into our out-of-court philosophy. I want to make money as much as the next person in order to feed my kids, pay for their education, and provide for myself in retirement while having a decent quality of life. We have a social media presence, which we leverage to build community connections with other business owners and professionals. The goal is to be able to serve our clients better, which obviously leads to profit for us (hopefully). I benefit from this financially while also providing a service that I think is very needed to provide holistic assistance during separation and divorce that helps a family transition in a healthy way.
I shared the details of my business here to show my own place in the business/personal social media milieu. If I could make more money with a stronger social media presence, I probably would. Local and service based is a lot different than selling tangible goods. I guess my point is that **most** of us are willing to use social media for what it can offer us, so where do we draw the line?
I really like your thought experiment, but I cant help but be slightly cynical about the inevitability of user exploitation for personal gain.
As a fashion designer, I 100% agree with your comment on testing what people want. I’ve actually just written a piece on it and how helpful it could be to those who are just starting out. I love how engaged Substackers are.